“Yes I Can Say That” - Notes on Judy Golds’ Book for BJI
A Study Guide by Sharon Heyman
Sharon Heyman was a bit apprehensive about leading a discussion on a book that featured salty language and controversial topics. But, excellent teacher as she is, Sharon prepared a comprehensive outline of the book and a plan for discussion. Her study guide includes discussion questions, excerpts from the book, background on the author and YouTube links to comedy sketches cited in the book. It’s informal but very informative.
Her work paid off in a civil, engaged and lively discussion. Sharon says: " I was very pleased with the discussion! I hope everyone enjoyed it."
For anyone who missed the discussion, who attended and is still thinking about the topics presented, or an interested reader who simply wants ‘Cliff Notes’ on “Yes I Can Say That,” here is Sharon’s study guide:
Judy Gold Yes I Can Say That: When They Come for the Comedians, We are all in Trouble
Session outline:
1. Introduction to Yes, I Can Say That and this book discussion
2. Who is Judy Gold?
3. Too many people take things too seriously
4. Female Comedians: Joan Rivers
5. Use of Obscene Language in Comedy
6. Stereotypes and Ethnic Jokes
7. Political Satire
8. Good comedians who do bad things
9. Political Correctness, Social Media, Comedians are just people who sometimes make mistakes
1. Welcome
Welcome to the discussion about Judy Gold’s Yes I Can Say That: When they come for the comedians, we are all in trouble. I tried really hard to stay organized for this presentation, but Judy skips around a lot so it was tricky. After a brief introduction about the book, I’ll talk about Judy’s life, which wasn’t easy and resulted in her being able to take insults easily – and to believe that other people should also lighten up. Then we’ll talk about how Judy was impacted by other female comedians, specifically her idol, Joan Rivers. After that we’ll get into the main point of the book, which is why Judy thinks it comedians should be allowed to say what they want how they want to say it – including obscene language, ethnic jokes. stereotypes, political satire. I’ll intersperse jokes, though I’m not a great joke-teller and Judy says that her jokes aren’t as funny when they’re not in context, so I’ll also show a few you tube videos. Finally, we’ll talk about political correctness and cancel-culture.
Brief Introduction: In the introduction to the book, Judy argues that there is nothing more insidious than repressing jokes and that it’s a comedian’s job to expose society’s demons and confront them head-on. She is known for humor that often makes people uncomfortable and admits that at times she and other comedians can go too far. However, she is concerned that the recent rush to silent comedians is a dangerous trend. She says “I sincerely want you to develop an appreciation of the role comedy plays in fostering healing and cohesion during difficult periods like the present, when our fragile democracy is under attack. But most of all, no matter what, I want you to keep laughing.”
2. Who is Judy Gold?
Judy was born on November 15, 1962 and grew up in a traditional, culturally Jewish home in New Jersey. Her mother took care of the children while her father worked. Judy and her siblings were made acutely aware of their identify as Jews and the prevalence of antisemitism. Many of her jokes are about her Jewish mother, who she was very close to and loved dearly.
As a child, other children often made fun of her. She was very tall for her age (six feet tall by age 12) – (p3) I was taller than my mother, my older sister, my teachers, the principal, my parents’ friends, my friends’’ parents, and the rabbi presiding over my bat mitzvah…..
At school, Judy endured teasing, bullying – called names like Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Jolly Green Giant, Big Bird…”
Her mother told her to ignore the teasing, so tried to – until as a comedian she learned to deflect insults with witty comebacks, which we’ll talk about later.
From a pretty young age Judy knew she was funny; she had a group of friends (she refers to as other misfits) who told her so. She often got in trouble and then made jokes about it. One of the greatest feelings she had was when her friends laughed “with” her not “at” her. One example - when she was 12 years old and the teachers would say Act your age, not your shoe size, she would reply “same thing.” Later, in college at Rutgers, her RA asked her to perform her first comedy skit – about the dorm she lived in – and she was hilarious! After that first stand-up experience she knew she wanted to be a comedian.
While pursuing her career in comedy, she lived with her long-time girlfriend for twenty years and had two children (boys). She has an apartment on the Upper West Side that she loves – she’s friends with all her neighbors. She spends summer in Provincetown with her present fiancé, Elysa Halpern.
Besides stand-up, Judy is an actress and has starred in several comedy specials; she is a TV writer (she won 2 Emmys for The Rosie O’Donnell Show); she’s a producer and a podcast host. Judy is also a political activist, and an advocate for the LJBTQ community and Jewish community. In addition, she wrote and starred in three Off-Broadway shows, most recently the show entitled Yes I Can Say That is based on this book. Here’s a quick intro to that show.
https://www.59e59.org/shows/show-detail/yes-i-can-say-that/#show-info
3. People take things too seriously
Because Judy was teased so much as a child, she learned to take a joke or a microaggression and turn it around. A microaggression is defined (p.6) as “a comment or action that subtly and often unconsciously or unintentionally expresses a prejudiced attitude toward a member of a marginalized group (such as a racial minority).” But Judy argues that this concept has been expanded to include anything that makes anyone feel insulted, invisible, or uncomfortable – basically, excuses for crybabies to make mountains out of molehills. She thinks that people have become too sensitive, and would do better if they could deflect micro aggressors by one-upping the perpetrators with a witty response, which is what she does: If someone says to her:
Wait, Do Jews celebrate Thanksgiving? Yes we do. They just granted us full US holiday celebratory rights. (p.8)
Or…. You’re a comedian. Say something funny. You’re an accountant. Do my taxes. (p.10)
Typical joke about her mother using a microaggression: (p.9)
MOM: Hello?
JUDY: HI, Mom. I wanted to let you know that I’ll be on the View tomorrow.
MOM: Oh, very nice. I’ll watch. What is the topic this time?
JUDY: It’s Pride week, so I’m talking about being a lesbian mom.
MOM: They must have a lot of airtime to fill (microaggression).
JUDY: What’s that supposed to mean?
MOM: [pause] I’m very dizzy right now, Judith. I’ll have to call you later (Jewish guilt aggression)
Questions: Do you think our society has become too sensitive? How do you feel in someone says something to you that demeans you? Can you think of responses on the spot?
4. Female Comedians: Joan Rivers
Judy writes that Joan Rivers (p,170) is the funniest and most fearless of women…she’s included in many lists of Jewish women who changed the world, though …she was brash, outspoken, and brilliant. Joan graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Barnard College and was part of a group of very smart young improv comedians – Second City – known as a group of smartasses who fed off each other – Joan learned to say the things everyone thought but were afraid to say.
Why should I clean? Housework is futile. You make the bed, you do the dishes, six months later you have to start all over again.
On my wedding night, my husband said “Let me help you with the buttons.’ And I said “I’m naked”
On Johnny Carson: Giving birth was so painful ..beginning with conception.
I’ll play a segment of an interview with Joan Rivers:
YouTube·American Masters PBS·May 28, 2024
YouTube
Joan also made fun of people, but Judy argues that people were willing to laugh along with Joan because they could tell that underneath, there was a generous kind human being (how do we know that?). Her fat jokes about Elizabeth Taylor’s weight were relentless. And the Royal Family: Do you find the Royal Family good-looking? Cause my husband’s English – he thinks they’re good-looking. A bunch of dogs! Go out in the street, call their names. Queenie, Duke, and Prince! See what shows up.
Like Judy, Joan made jokes to deflect sadness, She was distraught when her husband committed suicide, but in a stand-up she said My husband wanted to cremated. I told him I’d scatter his ashes at Neiman Marcus – that way I’d visit him every day,
And then there’s the controversial Holocaust Joke: Referring to Heidi Klumm, she said the last time a German looked this hot was when they were pushing Jews into the ovens. She was criticized by the Anti-Defamation League, but Judy defends her by saying “What Joan did was bring together two completely different meanings of the word hot and simultaneously remind the world of the Holocaust.. It was an f*ing joke and a funny one… hearing a joke about a tragedy isn’t going to strip away your knowledge or you empathy.
(p.183) When Joan was asked if she felt like there were ever any boundaries, she said “Lemme tell you, life is very tough and if you can make a joke to make something easier and funny, do it. Done.” She also said “We don’t apologize for a joke. We are comics. We are here to make you laugh. If you don’t get it, then don’t watch us.” Judy prefers to clarify it by saying GOOD jokes. The only way to make a joke GOOD is to take it to the edge, though it’s sometimes hard to find exactly where the edge is. That’s why earlier I said that omics make mistakes, they are human.
(p.186) Joan in her fearlessness and tenacity, engendered generations of gut-busting Jewish female stand-ups.
Question: Does anyone know anything about Joan Rivers or other early female comedians that you would like to share?
So now that you know about her idol, we’ll move to Judy and her opinions about what comedians should be allowed to say.
Judy Gold performing. Source: wikipedia.com
5. Use of Obscene Language
Judy does not believe in censoring good comics, as long as their jokes are funny, and people laugh. In fact, she repeats constantly that the whole purpose of comedy is just to make people laugh. However, comedians, mostly on the radio and on TV, have historically been censored and fined for using inappropriate language. She goes on to explain some of the regulations that were enforced and some of the people who disregarded the regulations.
In 1930, the Motion Picture Production Code also called The Hays Code (p.17), prohibited certain words and behaviors on film (cursing, nudity, pregnancy, the word virgin, premarital sex, interracial relationships, kisses lasting more than three seconds, venereal disease, blasphemy, and all criminal activity) Authority figures and clergy had to be depicted with respect.
Lenny Bruce, a stand-up comic in the 1950’s and 60’s, refused to abide by the rules. (p65-68) She says that when you mention the concept of freedom of speech to any comedian, usually the first name that comes out of their mouth is Lenny Bruce… He pushed the envelope - He died for our sins…He was arrested and accused of being obscene, indecent, immoral, and impure…). (p69) Would there have been a George Carlin or a Richard Pryor without Lenny? Who Knows…
Judy also writes about George Carlin, who in 1972 performed a the infamous stand-up monologue (not on TV) about the seven words you can never say on television. Of course, he said the words: shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, and tits.
He said…(p.145) Language can’t hurt people. If these words could be shown to truly create moral problems for people, I’d have another look at it. But I don’t think there is a shred of evidence that the use of bad language in any way makes the person a bad person.
Between 1990 and 2004, Howard Stern was issued 190 fines totaling 2.5 million dollars. When hired for WNBC in NY, he was given a list of seven things he cannot say on TV (including the 7 dirty words). Of course, he ignored them and kept getting fined.
Since the advent of HBO and cable TV, anything goes……
What do you think about comedians using obscene language?
What do you think about censorship of entertainers/comedians?
6. Stereotypes and Ethnic Jokes
Sharon Heyman with husband Barry and sons. Sharon leads the Friday Walkers group and organizes the Film Festival patio receptions
Judy thinks that making jokes about certain groups is acceptable if you are a part of the group or if you are coming from a place of knowledge, thoughtfulness, or respect. (To me this is a little vague) Judy is part of the LGBTQ community and the Jewish Community. Here is an example of a Jewish joke she was criticized for.
Did you guys hear about those Hasidic rabbis in Borough Park Brooklyn, who were convicted of laundering Columbian drug money through their synagogue and yeshiva? I think they are innocent, because those Hasidim don’t launder anything.
She also about how stereotypes don’t just assemble out of thin air. We are all products of our ancestry. Stereotype jokes can be funny if a good comedian says it and it’s not said in a derogatory way. (again a little vague). So what does she say about Jewish stereotypes? Jews are obsessed with money and are cheap… Historically, during the Middle Ages Jews weren’t allowed to own land and were excluded from most professions, so they became money-lenders.
Jack Benn jokey:
CRIMINAL: Your money or your life.
BENNY: (pause)
CRIMINAL: Look, bud. I said your money or your life.
BENNY: I’m thinking it over.
Another Jewish stereotype: Jews are overbearing with their children by being overprotecting, overfeeding, constantly worrying, pushing their children to be successful… Historically, Jews were persecuted, scapegoated, ghettoized, expelled from their homes, and Oh yeah, sent to concentration camps and separated from their children.
Judy Gold joke:
Judy called her mother from work but got disconnected. She didn’t call her right back. Her mother didn’t realize she was at work and called her at home so this was on her answering machine:
MOM: (hysterical) Judith! Are you all right? Did you fall down? What happened? Where are you? I’m a wreck. I don’t understand this. Maybe I’ll call Marjorie and tell her to go over and find out what happened. JUDITH! WHERE ARE YOUY???? (pause) So long.
Judy Gold - My Mom Is So Annoying
Judy Gold - My Mom Is So Annoying
Of course there are other ethnic stereotypes based on history, but we won’t have time to get into all of them: Women, African American, Chinese, Japanese, Gays….
Question: What do you think about ethnic jokes?
7. Political Satire
Judy believes political satire is essential. She says that the purpose of political satire is to shed light on abuse, incompetence, hypocrisy, and misuse of power. Jon Stewart, Samantha Bee, Bill Maher, John Oliver, Stephen Colbert, Seth Meyers, Trevor Noah enlighten viewers about newsworthy events.
Trevor Noah (p.81)
Donald Trump didn’t invent racism. Trump didn’t invent Islamophobia. And he didn’t invent violence. All he did was put his name on it like he does everything else.
Judy defends Howard Stern as someone who exposed racism but wasn’t a racist. He had grown up in an interracial neighborhood accustomed to hearing and using words about race. He also was called a misogynist but NEVER accused of behaving inappropriately with women. His jokes do not represent the good person that he is (very was kind to Judy when he did not pitch her TV show). She also defends the Smothers Brothers (p.152-159) who were censored for making fun of Lyndon Johnson and the Viet Nam War.
By the early 1970’s, there were big changes in what was acceptable comedy on TV. Last week we talked about Normal Lear and the prevalence of touchy topics that were acceptable on TV comedies: feminism, civil rights, miscarriage, abortion…All in the Family, Good Times, The Jeffersons, Sanford and son, Mary Tyler Moore Show, MASH
Judy devotes an entire chapter to the Trump administration (which is when this book was written). She says You can tell a lot about a person by what they find funny… or if they even have a sense of humor…Have you ever seen Donald Trump laugh? Hitler? Putin? … And if you ever have seen them laughing, I promise that they’re laughing at someone else’s expense… and not laughing at themselves….(p.106-7)
Trump speaks recklessly, demeans entire groups of people, calls people names (which is defined as pre-school behavior). He doesn’t apologize for anything and always brags about himself. The president is the leader of the free world and is supposed to represent the values that made our country an example to the rest of the world. The president’s speech and behavior also model the norm for people who are becoming increasingly rude, petty, and callout. Judy points out that yes, political comedians do say crass things about Trump, but they are comedians. They have always made jokes about Presidents and other people in power. Just as comedians are not the president, the president is not a comedian.
Trump can’t take a joke as demonstrated by his refusal to attend the correspondence dinners. He berates comedians who make jokes about him. Just like Hitler. Jokes and laughter about Hitler weakened Nazi propaganda. Hitler despised being laughed at, so he attacked the comedians, cartoonists, and cabaret performers who mocked him… telling anti-Nazi jokes were considered acts of reason, punishable by imprisonment or death.
What do you think about political satire?
8. Good Comedians who do bad things.
Louis CK, Michael Jackson, Bill Cosby, Kathy Griffin (inappropriate photo of Donald Trump), PeeWee Herman.
Judy seemed OK with forgiving some of them who might say inappropriate things (swears, etc.) but are good people as opposed to comedians who DO inexcusable things like Bill Cosby.
(p103) Cliff Huxtable was a successful, funny, loving, smart, and sometimes embarrassing TV father. As such, he was an extremely important representation of the head of an African American family…Bill Cosby is no Cliff Huxtable – he’s a hypocritical and arrogant rapist prick.
(p104) Now, it’s not my place to tell you which actions are inexcusable, and which aren’t, or ever which comedians deserve a second chance and which don’t. That’s for you and your conscience to decide (though I do think our legal system’s felony statutes provide a good starting point). …I’m certain, however, that each of us is more than our worst action, and that forgiveness is in increasingly short supply in our tweet ‘n’ run world… Banishing comedians means depriving us of laughter that heals, educates, and connects. Banish wisely.
What do you think about separating comedians – and actors, athletes, etc. – who are good at what they do but do bad things in their personal lives?
9. Political Correctness and Cancel Culture in our Society Today
As we said earlier, there is an increased list of acceptable topics for late-night hosts (and movies, music, TV, entertainment), but in many ways we’ve gone backwards. Nowadays social media and technology have created a “cancel culture” by sensationalizing comments made by famous people at some time in their lives that were not “politically correct.” Anyone can research a famous person online and find out things they once said or did that are offensive and then share it online.
Judy talks about political correctness coming from both sides. Even though she is definitely left leaning, she criticizes the proselytization of political correctness by the sanctimonious left. Yes, you heard me.(p.159)
I’ll end with a video of Judy and the director of her play about the book, BD Wong, talking about political correctness.